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David Stanley Ford

Uninsured Oklahomans won’t lose football tickets

BY DON MECOY    Comments Comment on this article33
Published: November 22, 2008

State Insurance Commissioner Kim Holland wants more public discussion about Oklahoma’s health care insurance crisis.


Kim Holland

Multimedia

Unfortunately, much of the talk now is about Holland, who this week floated the idea of using inducements — such as the loss of college football season tickets — to get people to buy health insurance.

The football ticket idea riled the populace.

Dozens of people called or sent emails to the state Insurance Department after a story appeared Friday in The Oklahoman, agency spokesman Lance Thomas said. The department usually gets no more than a couple of such calls a week, Thomas said. The story elicited more than 200 comments on NewsOK.com.

Not meant seriously

Holland said the idea of a football ticket takeaway is impractical, unenforceable, and wasn’t meant to be taken seriously.

"It was one small part of a larger discussion, and it was generally in jest,” Holland said of the ticket takeaway concept.

A State Coverage Initiative that includes leaders from the insurance industry, government, business and elsewhere has been discussing ways to improve Oklahoma’s poor standing when it comes to the number of residents lacking insurance. Holland, in a presentation Thursday, mentioned the inducements as part of a report about the initiative’s progress.

But any attempt to establish rewards for buying insurance or penalties for failing to do so would come only after policymakers find ways to make health insurance more affordable, Holland said.

Not taking tickets

"We aren’t looking at ways to take away these football tickets, but rather, how do we make sure people feel as strongly about paying their medical bills and getting the care they need as they do the things they enjoy doing, like going to football games or going hunting,” Holland said.

Among the penalties discussed by the initiative was loss of hunting, fishing or driving licenses, seizing lottery or gaming winnings, loss of in-state tuition discounts or disallowing state income tax exemptions.

Some studies suggest as many as a third of Oklahomans lack health plans.

Although Holland said some of the feedback she received Friday was "not very nice,” some callers supported the measure.

Tom Daxon, former state finance director, said Oklahoma needs to stop shifting health costs for uninsured to people who have insurance.

"What she said is something that needs to be said,” Daxon said. "Whether it’s football tickets or lottery winnings, whatever it is.”

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David Stanley Ford



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I, too, take great offense at Kim Holland's suggestion as to how to 'make' people purchase health insurance. As everyone has already addressed the 'football ticket' issue, has anyone addressed the issue where she suggested withholding hunters and drivers' licenses? Let me see, I need money to purchase health insurance, to get the money, I have to go to work, to go to work I need a drivers' license, on and on, I'm sure you get my drift. Not only that, my husband as well as hundreds if not thousands of school bus and public transportation drivers need there CDLs to get work, is she suggesting putting all those hard-working individuals out of work? Maybe the answer is lower health care rates, peeves me that I paid for my Doctor's kids' college, his Mercedes and that half a million dollar house he lives in, what's up with that? I digress, taking away my 'rights' to 'make' me purchase something I can't afford is not the answer. Anyway, the people who can afford OU football tickets can afford health insurance as well.Another thing, if I were a billionaire, I wouldn't waste my money on health insurance as most hospitals give a substantial discount for cash, usually 25-30% (I know this because I paid cash for my recent hospital stay). Can't get that discount if you have insurance, guess those folks with insurance don't realize how their premiums are carrying even the mega-rich.
Pat, Midwest City - Nov 24, 2008 at 9:53 am
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I could care less whether the so-called inducements, which are really punishments, take the form of forbidden football tickets, loss of driver's license, or forfeiture of lottery winnings. It is the idea that people should receive some penalty from the government for their inability to afford health coverage for themselves and their family members.

Said in jest? Hardly a topic for levity, and let's not forget that Insurance Commissioner Holland was not the only one talking about "inducements." State Representative Kris Steele, R-Shawnee, was in agreement with the commissioner.

Friday's article quotes Steele as saying "You need the carrot and the stick." I'm not a donkey and neither are the people who at present cannot afford health insurance.

There cannot be many Oklahomans who choose not to have health insurance; most of the time it is because such coverage is unaffordable. Until the state determines a way to make coverage affordable to residents, any talk of inducement--positive or negative is putting the proverbial cart before the horse.
Deb, Arcadia - Nov 23, 2008 at 9:08 pm
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I say more power to the commish! How about some personal responsibility here Okies? It is high time someone spoke up and "encouraged" people to get their priorities straight. If you do not have health insurance you SHOULD NOT be spending your money on football tickets, lottery tickets, or any other "splurge item" for that matter. When people without health insurance get sick, they typically present themselves at the emergency room for care. You want to know who foots the bill for this people? We, the tax payers do! And that is precisely why it is the business of the government.

Personally, I am for universal health care so that we can make sure that every single human being in this country has access to decent and basic health care, but until that time comes, it is imperative that people act responsibly. Buying football season tickets when you and your family do not have health insurance is NOT acting responsible.
Michael, Oklahoma City - Nov 23, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Holland said the idea of a football ticket takeaway is impractical, unenforceable, and wasn’t meant to be taken seriously.
"It was one small part of a larger discussion, and it was generally in jest,” Holland said of the ticket takeaway concept.
----
"Just in Jest?" Proverbs 26: 18-19 says "...like a madman who throws fire brands, arrows and death..is the man who deceives his neighbor and says 'I was only joking.'"
Percy F., Ardmore - Nov 23, 2008 at 6:38 am
Good work there Sparky! Holland is truly and idiot and I'm amazed she is at the positions she is in. #1, she should never "jest", anything that comes out of her mouth should be fact. If she plans on jesting in the future, she should let people know, I'm only joking when I say this. #2, you can't force people to have insurance they can't afford. Insurance companies are all about the money already and don't give a crap about the person. If the state were to require everyone to have insurance, the rates would skyrocket! If she really wants everyone to have insurance then it has to be affordable and the insurance companies have to actual do what they are intended to do. Not deny every other claim and make you jump through hoops for basic care! I don't claim to have the answer but I know change must happen. This country is headed into a dark time if people are continued to be forced into debt and unemployment, next will be a huge rise in sickness and death because people don't have insurance. Also, there is such thing as being under insured. Just because I have insurance doesn't mean I am in any better position to pay my medical bills. That is a very ignorant assumption from Holland. It's not the problem of the people but rather a problem that needs to be addressed with hospitals, insurance companies and employers. I have decent insurance only because my wife works in the medical field. I've went several years before then with no insurance because I had to choose between paying rent and electricity bills or pay several $100s a month on something I would only use a few times a year. I don't drive a fancy car, my TV is over 10 years old and I squeak by paycheck to paycheck every month. If Holland really wants to live by the word she speaks, drop the state insurance she receives and see how far she gets! I would imagine she is getting kick backs from hospitals and insurance companies for pushing this agenda and placing all the blame on hard working citizens. Oklahoma is so freaking backwards!
Jess, Warr Acres - Nov 23, 2008 at 12:07 am
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I did just get through faxing an inquiry to the Federal Office for Civil Rights. If this thread is open for a week, I'll post their reply.
Sparky (Mark), Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I don't have O.U. tickets as to get a season pass, you have to donate $1500 to the O.U. Athletic Foundation just for the privilege. I know people who have something like 8 tickets in the family. They also drive nice cars and have oil leases. I have none of that. I live quite a meek life. I do the best I can to cover medical expenses but I only have minor medical policies and not a comprehensive policy. A year ago, I had BC/BS for about 3 months. I got sick and they pretty much denied payments on everything. I paid Blue Cross $1200 in premiums during that period but they said I had to pay a year's worth of premiums to pass the pre-existing clause. Everything I have, I've had for many years like HBP, etc. I went to a new employer and I'm now just waiting out my year of no coverage and then I'll sign up with BC/BS again. Then I'm telling my doctor to fix me good. BC/BS will be helpless because I will not have seen a doctor or been treated in any way for a year. As for John's comment below, I looked it up and he's right. The State will have some serious troubles on hits hands once it delves into private medical records. Here's what I found at the Civil Rights Commission about HIPPA:
The term 'health information' means any information, whether oral or recorded in any form or medium, that--

"(A) is created or received by a health care provider, health plan, public health authority, employer, life insurer, school or university, or health care clearinghouse; and

"(B) relates to the past, present, or future physical or mental health or condition of an individual, the provision of health care to an individual, or the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual.

I am filing an inquiry with them to see what they think about all of this. I'm sure Ms. Holland will be hearing from the commission next week.
Sparky (Mark), Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 11:04 pm
I talked with several attorneys who are chomping at the bit to file a massive federal HIPPA lawsuit against the Insurance Commission, tax commission, and the department of public safety. In order to access our private medical records to extract data about the type of policy each of us have, the coverages, and the personal identifying data, the state will need to get a judge to issue about 2 million warrants. Without these warrants, each of those agencies will be in violation of the HIPPA medical privacy act. When that happens, the state will be sued in federal court. Its is the same thing when hospital workers in California browsed into medical accounts of actors. They were caught and prosecuted. The state has no business looking into my personal medical records and there is at least on law firm in Tulsa who is waiting for a chance to get this in front of a jury. I asked him what amount of judgment he would seek against the state and compensation for victims. He said something like 2-million dollars per victim. So, go ahead Ms. Holland and do what you want, but when you violate HIPPA you will get what you want. Since each victim will collect a massive judgment they will be able to afford the best coverage BC/BS offers. So its a good thing you are doing in a very perverted way.
John, Stigler - Nov 22, 2008 at 10:13 pm
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Robin, I got this number for Kids Now Insurance a few years ago and don't know if the program still exists but you might call and find out. 1-877-543-7669
Floyd, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Does this mean that she will not be taking people's drivers license also???
Jane, Durant - Nov 22, 2008 at 7:20 pm
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Heres some reality for some.I am a 37 year old widow mother of 2 grandmother of 1. I have had seizures for little over 2 years now.Due to this I have been unable to find a job because I am either a liability due to the sezures or my medications.I am unable to file for disability because I have not worked in 2 years. My only income is the social security check I receive on my youngest son since his father died. According to the guide lines of this state I make to much money for food stamps and any kind of insurance help with them. I am not in low income houseing so I pay full rent and bills. Here comes the best part. I only get 748 a month. Now tell me how I can afford insurance. I have to have my drivers lisc. to take my son to the doctor if need be and I rely on my fishing lisc. to help feed us.
Robin, Ardmore - Nov 22, 2008 at 6:43 pm
And please, someone get this woman some BRONZER! Geez!
Susan, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 6:34 pm
It seems the government is backwards. It is always billing the people who can't foot the bill and bailing out the people who screwed everyone else out of a job in the first place. CitiCorp laid off 50,000 employees. That is more than the population of Shawnee, Oklahoma. So the workers who were trying to make it until retirement are now out of a job and likely have no way to cover the COBRA payments for their own insurance. Not that those employees are here, but it's not a new story. Insurance isn't a "have to." Someone yesterday said we are confusing insurance with care. I agree with that. If someone can pay for their trips to the doctor, or they have a religious belief that keeps them from seeing a doctor, or simply doesn't go to doctors because they've had a bad experience in the past (hello, HMO), they are not a burden on the taxpayer. Yet, under Holland's logic, these people would be lumped right on in with everyone else. Holland needs to focus on the companies setting the rules. The ones who won't pay a claim because they simply don't feel like it. The ones who charge ridiculous rates because they CAN. What does she think is going to happen if she forces everyone to buy insurance? The Insurance Companies are going to charge EVEN MORE because they know their product is now a requirement. She needs to go after the doctors who bill insurance companies for procedures and tests they don't perform. She needs to go after insurance companies who are wasting their funds on bonuses for CEOs. She needs to pull her head out and remember that Brad Henry signs her check, but WE are the ones who will ultimately decide if she (and he) have a job.
Susan, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 6:31 pm
...think I'll 'jest' Holland on the next ballot I see her name on. Insurance companies have been bending us over for far too long, but does she(or any other commissioner, for that matter) think to look in THAT direction? I maintain that the uninsured have NO connection to insurance company disbursements, except in cases of 'uninsured motorists.' Undoubtedly, the uninsured cause problems with HOSPITALS, but all in OKAY SEE can't seem to spend enough money on expanding, therefore, its not a question of losing money, but that of not making quite the profit line they want.
Kevin, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I agree Mr. Spencer, A village Idiot!
lildab, enid - Nov 22, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Stephanie, I agree if a person can afford all the things you listed they can afford health insurance. Let me ask you a ? why is it the governments place to say that you have to have health insurance? and if not they will take away all of the items in the article? Gov. should stay the hell out of peoples private lives !
lildab, enid - Nov 22, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Exactly, Susan. Those who are uninsured typically don't buy season tickets to games, iphones & such. Again, it's not just season tickets they may (or may not) be able to purchase. What about simple licenses to drive, tax exemptions & such? Again, I say it's another way for the state level to control the options of the people.
~Jeanette, OKC~
Jen, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 5:36 pm
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K & Stephanie...that's a pretty big assumption. I hope you won't mind posting that list of people and their unnecessary expenditures since it's obvious you know that everyone (because Kim's idea didn't mention anything about exemptions for people who really aren't misappropriating their funds) will be dinged on this - whether or not they are wasting their money on silly things. Truly, how many people do you know who do this? And of course I mean know for a fact. Have seen their debit sheets and know what they spend their cash on. What about the working poor who are scraping to get by? Those people will be targeted too. Then what?
Susan, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 5:27 pm
I agree Stephanie. That's why we are where we are. In big trouble!!
K, Edmond - Nov 22, 2008 at 5:21 pm
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If you can afford football tickets, an Iphone, a Coach purse, fake nails, a plasma TV, etc, then you should be able to afford health insurance. I can't believe I'm the only one that thinks this is a great idea. Shows how ignorant you people are with money and priorities.
Stephanie, Norman - Nov 22, 2008 at 5:00 pm
That was a great point, Bobby. What about the state license seizure, lottery win claims, or the state tax exemptions being possibly denied due to lack of insurance. Maybe if Mrs. Holland is unhappy with insurance in this great state of OK, perhaps she should be the SIC in another state. I'd be more than happy to see someone else take her current position. I wonder what other ideas they will think of. Again, we need to be very diligent in sending a clear, clean message we are against those options for those who are uninsured. It's entirely not fair to them.
~Jeanette, OKC~
Jen, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 3:10 pm
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Naturally, Kim Holland is trying to cover her tracks. She states, "It was one small part of a larger discussion, and it was generally in jest." I seriously doubt this. Only when an uproar occurred followed by a flood of calls, was the realization made it's a bad idea to take football tickets from hard-working people who like to enjoy a game! Perhaps we should remember either: 1. She is taking away our right to drive, enjoy a game, etc just because one doesn't have an insurance or 2. She jests to the public and should not be taken seriously. For a State Insurance Commissioner to jest over such things are ridiculous. I know whom to not vote for next time!!!! Perhaps we need more of an uproar over other topics our politicians cannot seem to handle properly. I think its time to get politicians & representatives into office who not only want to make a difference, but do things right. I think, for what little it's probably worth, Mrs. Holland made a poor choice in suggesting what she did - jest or not. If she suggested take away one's driver license due to lack of insurance, here would be my questions: How can one afford insurance without a job? If they have a job & it pays insurance, how would they be able to get to work without a license to drive? Break the law & drive without one? I think not! To take away one's license, thus making it difficult to get to work would only add to the crime & rise in jail/prison population. But guess who'd be paying for the inmates' care - working citizens, who still have to afford insurance! Maybe if the political leaders, representatives, etc weren't paid so much, we could afford more insurance.

~And for those of you obsessed with grammar & spelling, I did a spelling & grammar check first.~

Jeanette, OKC
Jen, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 2:26 pm
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Of course now that over 200 people posted in a public forum about how completely out of touch this woman is she was only "jesting." However, if the people posting yesterday (I being one of them) had been behind her, this article and her appearance on the news last night would not have happened. These people need to realize that NOTHING they say can be brushed off as "in jest." We take paying her salary AND her insurance (as well as the rest of the legislature) very seriously. Even if we can't afford out own, we are required by taxes to pay a portion of hers. So if these people in office would like to continue with those benefits, I would suggest they take us and what comes out of their mouths a little more seriously. I think Main Street has had enough and these people in office better realize that or search for other jobs!
Susan, Oklahoma City - Nov 22, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Three years ago, my 22 year old son was hit by an uninsured motorist from south of the border. Ahem. The police came and wrote the other driver a ticket, but that was it, didn't impound his car or take him to jail. MY motor vehicle insurance paid for ALL of my son's medical bills. We were called a few days later by an automotive repair shop, wanting to fix our son's car. When I asked how he had got our name, he said the other driver had brought his car in to be fixed. My son's car was totaled. We paid the higher premiums and tried to find a lawyer to take the case, but were told by three different lawyers that it wouldn't be worth the chase. My son goes on about his life, working hard and making a bit over minimum wage, but paying his bills and being an honest, hard working young man. His employer doesn't offer medical insurance because the employer can't afford it. My son had the flu, went to the doctor, and they sent him to the ER for Spinal Meningitis tests. Thank God, truly, that he didn't have it, but he now owes a local hospital nearly ten thousand dollars. He is hard working, going to school, and the hospital wants $360. a month payments and when he told them he didn't make that in a week, they turned him over to a collections agency. I don't know how this is going to turn out, but I guess he could go on welfare, draw food stamps and not have to worry about any of his bills. Bottom line, he is working hard for a future, giving up things we consider normal life like cable, eating out and movies, and he still cannot afford to buy health insurance. This woman needs to get out and talk to the real people, the ones who are busting their butts and still can't afford to live, just barely eat.
Bette, Duncan - Nov 22, 2008 at 12:33 pm
My husband and I own a small business in OKC and employ 1 full time and 4 part time employees. Since we are seklf employed we searched around for private insurance. The least expensive with moderate coverage for our family is $900.00 per month. Thats a big bite in the butt. In 2003 I had neck surgery. Now I am considered to have a non-covered pre-existing condition. Not only will they not cover any treatment for that condition, they have also denied me coverage for any skeletal issues. So, if I break an arm: not covered! fall and break an ankle: not covered! get hit in the head and need an MRI: not covered! The only reason we carry insurance is that we have 2 children who are involved in sports.
We are not rich, don't drive fancy cars, or live in a BIGGGGG! house. And I have never purchased high dollar sports tickets. We live within our means and try to provide our family with the essentials.

1 month ago my son required emergency surgury. The hospital bill came 3 days later. They can't wait to get their money. Total time for the surgery and recovery (they released him 2 hours later)was 3 hours. Total bill $22,000.00. Insurance only paid $7000.00. My share $2000.00. Demand for payment from the hospital came 2 weeks later. They offered to accept payment in 2 equal payments. Who has that kind of money laying around?
Rhonda, Yukon - Nov 22, 2008 at 12:20 pm

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