Clive- Why worry about someone's final judgement? We are creatures that possess an eternal soul. Some believe that that soul is reincarnated over and over, and some believe that soul is possessed by many, others believe that the soul belongs to the individual. Christians believe the latter, and are taught that the Messiah, who will wipe away every tear, is also the judge of humanities rejection of God. Because of this, caring Christians possess a desire that no individual soul spends their eternal existance in pain that never heals, thirst that is never quenched, and anger that never ceases. Therefore they care about your judgement. You can choose to accept God, or reject God, that is your right. But that is why Christian people care about judgement.

Sex is designed for procreation, we have a biological drive within us to continue the species. This is true whether you are a Christian or not. Simple basic biology taught in public school will tell you this. Biology has six signs of life 1. Composed of Cells 2. Organization 3. Metabolism 4. Response to Stimuli 5.Reproduction; living things must be able to reproduce, not for the individual, but for the continuation of life. and 6. Growth.

Greg sorry it has taken me so long to respond I have been out of commission and not online for a few days. You say there is no gay agenda. I disagree and in so doing, because my views are different than yours, you attack my education call me stupid and then ask me to load up my trailer and head out of town. Why all the hate? Just to let you know I do have a B.A. but knowledge and wisdom are two separate things. To say there is no agenda is as ludicrous as saying there is no right wing republican agenda or democratic agenda.
You asked for so proof so here it is but I'm sure you will just dismiss them and say that all the sources are to be ignored because they don't agree with your opinion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_agenda

http://www.article8.org/docs/general/platform.htm
“The agenda and vision that we must proudly articulate is that yes, indeed, we intend to change society.”
–Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, Nov. 10, “Creating Change” Conference.
My hope is not that you agree but that you will be more tolerant of those that disagree with you. Also when you lashing out and attack someone that you disagree with it shows a lack of ability to state facts pertaining to the subject. Try to stay focused on the subject being discussed and stop the offensive hate speech. It shows a lack of wisdom. P.S. I also own my home and it has no wheels! Wow the intolerance.

Kevin - People who deny the facts and consequences of their own choices that violate the design of Nature are doomed to fail.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that, Kevin. I think that's just as divisive as what Sally said. I am not a religious person but I know enough religious people (it is the bible belt, after all) to know that not everyone who is religious is a Sally Kern. Many of my GLBTIQQA friends are religious. I don't believe religion and intelligence are mutually exclusive. If we are to counter the misconceptions about homosexuality, we can't perpetuate misconceptions about people who believe in a deity.

People who talk to imaginary voices in the sky are hardly capable of assessing facts.

Additionally, I agree with Clive. Worry about your own day of judgment. Stop worrying about mine, or Buddhists' or Hindus' etc. If the god you believe in would send all those people to hell just because they believed a bit differently from you, then what difference does it make if you worry about them? None. It just creates more worry for you. Peace. Coexist. It is possible you know.

Chris, if you read my last two posts from last night you'll see where I mentioned a need for sleep since I had to rise early today for work. You didn't scare me off. I won't be able to post much (if at all) from work, but trust me, I didn't leave because of you, or because of Barbara, or even because of Bill. I left because it was time to go to sleep. Don't twist what happened.

Why would anyone be concerned for other peoples "Day of Judgement" ?

I can't believe they deleted my Quote of the Messiah who's Crucifixion and Resurrection will be celebrated beginning after dark, Sat. April 26 and most so-called Christians, probably including Mrs. Kern and her preacher husband's Church worshiped the sex-goddess Easter which celebrates sexual perversion, Mar. 23 as is the worst abomination in the whole Bible by Eze. 8. No wonder the Messiah said Sodom and Gomorrah would fare better on Judgment day than this generation. The Creator destroyed them with fire and brimstone for homosex practices as He did with the Flood not all that long before. The Savior said even Sodom and Gomorrah would condemn this generation.

Wow, it looks as if Barbara and I cleared the room. Good job us!!!

What happened to Paula?

Thanks for chatting with me Mark. I do appreciate it. Just remember, whether I or you believe it or not, the Bible says that God has set aside a day where he will judge the world in righteousnous. Mark you can email me any time if you want to talk further. Chris@PreachTheLaw.com. Thanks buddy. I will be prayin for you tonight.

Now to the government and it's elected officials they are (in my mind) entitled to their opinion. Which by the way what Rep, Kern was doing saying her opinion not facts.(Which by the way she spoke of 4 times before it got recorded) She spoke at a meeting of Republican club (by the way open meeting) On aggressive homosexual political agenda.
(How by the way they are funding homosexual and pro homosexual candidates to defeat conservatives everywhere.) Did not know if everyone had the facts on what she was really doing?

Now to the government and it's elected officials they are (in my mind) entitled to their opinion. Which by the way what Rep, Kern was doing saying her opinion not facts.(Which by the way she spoke of 4 times before it got recorded) She spoke at a meeting of Republican club (by the way open meeting) On aggressive homosexual political agenda.
(How by the way they are funding homosexual and pro homosexual candidates to defeat conservatives everywhere.) Did not know if everyone had the facts on what she was really doing?

Mark do you think I am using scare tactics to "Break you down?" I'm not. I am just being real. In the late 1980s, TV commercials in the U.S. asked, "What goes through the mind of a driver who is not wearing a seat belt in a head- n collision?" Then they showed a crash dummy having its head crushed by a steering wheel in a collision, and said, "The steering wheel!" Those were scare tactics, but no one complained because they were legitimate scare tactics. That’s what happens in a head-on collision if you are foolish enough to not put on a seat belt. To warn of hell is fearful, but it is absolutely legitimate, because the Bible says that it is a fearful thing for a sinner to fall into the hands of the living God.

We really could go around all night about this and never change each others minds. Thanks for the discussion though. It is nice to be challenged and to have to think through what you believe and why you believe it. It's healthy. I wish you all a great night and a great life.

Mark, Jesus said, and I am saying to you lovingly, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME. So what, hindus, muslims, buddhists, they all get to heaven believing in there own made up, carved out of wood, god? That sir, is so unreasonable.

Paula, you are right, he did not encourage hate at all. And neither do Christains. Well they shouldn't anyways. Some do. But Jesus did speak of hate himself. Jesus is love therefore he MUST hate. I love children, therefore I hate abortion. You see what I mean? Like you said, it's my belief. But that too is also wrong. It's not true because I believe it, I believe it because it's true. If Jesus was a real man, and is who he says he is, and can not tell a lie as the Bible says, then that means what he said is true that all must repent or will go to hell. If I told you I don't believe in trucks and went out and stood in the middle of I-40, my UNBELIEF is not going to change reality. I am going to get crushed!! So again, I care about your soul. If you died tonight, and God judged you by His law, would you go to heaven or hell?

Chris... I know it is easier when someone is weak and breaks down to listen to you. I know you have people's best interest in mind when you are "witnessing" to them. All I am saying is there are many more people in this world that do not believe as you do and I doubt they are all going to "hell." Come on... it is all so unreasonable.

"Hateful"? I'm just defending the TRUTH. If it stings a little, too bad. Your arrogance and pride are getting in the way your logic.

(That last post was directed at Bill, not at Chris or Barbara.) And with that, good night.

And while I would love to stay here all night and debate the constitutionality of separation of church and state for those who still cannot grasp it, I do have a job to go to tomorrow. Be sure to speak ill of me while I am gone and then claim you are doing it for God. I'm sure he'd be proud.

Don't even respond to Bill's weak logic Paula... I won't either. He has a hateful chip on his shoulder and isn't even worth the energy. I know this post sounds a bit hateful as well... but I am just returning the sentiment.

Because Mark, that is all that is going to matter the day you die, is the condition of your soul. It may be fine, I don't know that because I don't know you. But God does, and he sees and knows every thing you do, even the secret things done in darkness and that when you die, you will be judged not by your own goodness, but on how you measure up to God's law. The Ten Commandments. So all I care about in this whole topic dicussion is the souls that are going to die and face an angry God because of our sin and God is going to give you justince because he is a Just Judge.

Homosexuality is clearly and expressly defined and forbidden and is the only sin listed in Lev 18 and 20 that is expressly described as as abomination to God.
Plain and simple. In black and white, kinda like OUR GOVERNMENT (Bill of rights and Declaration of Independence).

Chris, since I am not a Christian, it doesn't matter much to me anyway. Again, I do not subscribe (used in a valid manner here, Barbara) to the same beliefs you do. Do not apply your beliefs to me. But as for the teachings of Jesus (who I do believe was a real man, a religious leader, but with no divinity) I don't believe he taught anyone to hate. He taught service and humility, turning the other cheek, and love for all people, even one's enemies. Yes he spoke of repentance, but he didn't encourage others to hate. Quite the opposite.

No Bill.. I can guarantee that most Americans do not want religion in our government. You sir, and people like you, are un-American. Love it or leave it. Start your own theocracy somewhere else and we will watch it fail just as all of them do.

So can anyone tell me what God did so that we, GUILTY FILTHY, WRETCHED, SINFUL LAWBREAKERS, would not have to go to hell when we die??? We broke Gods laws, despite our sexual preference, and we're damned. So.......any one up for giving me that answer?

Paula I read your silly post on the first amendment. My response handled it fairly well. But I would like to address your ignorant comment that discriminating against homosexuals is unconstitutional. THE TRUTH IS THAT DISCRIMINATING AGAINST HOMOSEXUALS IS LEGAL AND NECESSARY. "Current U.S. health regulations prohibit men who have sex with men (MSM) from donating blood. Studies conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) categorically confirm that if MSM were permitted to give blood, the general population would be placed at risk."

How has a discussion about religion and government needing to be mutually exclusive turned into a "Battle for my soul" Chris? My soul is just fine thank you. Your beliefs, your relationship with God, and your connection to the Bible- that is all your business and I would never make a policy taking the right to believe as you choose (or feel) from you. Nor would I ever deny you the right to live as you see fit. The same is expected from our Government and our representatives.

Everybody has taken pieces of what she said ( not the whole thing) just pieces and put them together to make out what everyone is upset about. If those people would have spoken and said and published what she actually said we would not be having this discussion. But since they did that (which by the way makes them liars) it brought us to where we are today.

No Bill, most Americans do not. I can see how easily it would be to come to that conclusion living in Oklahoma. But out there in the rest of the country, it's quite a different story.

Paula, if you denounce hate speech then you would HAVE to denounce half of the teachings of Jesus Christ himself. He was very harsh!!

Bill you apparently didn't read the rest of my post. Please go back and do so, and then we'll talk.

Mark, your desires for government and religion to be separate are irrelevant. Most Americans desire the exact opposite.

The Bible has many seeming contradictions within its pages. For example, the four Gospels give four differing accounts as to what was written on the sign that hung on the cross. Matthew said, “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (27:37). However, Mark contradicts that with “The King of the Jews” (15:26). Luke says something different: “This is the King of the Jews” (23:38), and John maintains that the sign said “Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews” (19:19).

Those who are looking for contradictions may therefore say, “See—the Bible is full of mistakes!” and choose to reject it entirely as being untrustworthy. However, those who trust God have no problem harmonizing the Gospels. There is no contradiction if the sign simply said, “This is Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews.”

The godly base their confidence on two truths: 1) “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16); and 2) an elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included seeming contradictions in His Word to “snare” the proud. He has “hidden” things from the “wise and prudent” and “revealed them to babes” (Luke 10:21), purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27).

Once again i don't think i said anything about discriminate against homosexuals. But, since people are good at putting words in peoples mouths like they did with Rep. Kern who by the way if you want to know what she really said go to http://www.messengerradio.com/index.php#3_25_2008.mp3
it is a interview she did to again try and explain to people what she really said until other people got a hold of it and turned it into something it wasn't. Putting words in peoples mouths.

Barbara, I denounce hate speech of any kind. Thus far I have read that the OSBI has found exactly one email sent to Ms. Kern that can be constituted as a legitimate death threat. The person who wrote that does not speak for me any more than Ms. Kern does. I promote peace, and death threats directly contradict what I believe.

I'm not ignorant of the concept you believe in concerning the authorship of the Bible. It just has no basis in reality. None of this can be proven either way, so it is immaterial. Government and religion must be entirey separate... and yes Barbara I agree with you... the public schools in PA shouldn't have Yoga classes. If one religion must stay out of government, so should they all.

Paula, since you have so much practice distorting the Word of God, it is no surprise you also mangled the First Amendment. I will try to keep this simple for you. Has Rep. Kern proposed a law respecting the establishment of religion? (Answer is no). Is the phrase "separation of church and state" in the constitution? (Answer is no.) Is religion prohibited in politics? (Answer is no.)

Mark, seriously, I don't interpret the Bible. I just READ it. Interpret this.....Jesus said, "Unless you REPENT, you will ALL likewise perish!" How do you interpret that??? I am so curious.

Mark, one of the most consistent "interpretations" of the Bible, throughout all of history, is that homosexual behaviour is sinful.

Barbara, the American Heritage Dictionary lists one of the definitions of "subscribe" as: "To feel or express hearty approval: example: I subscribe to your opinion." Before needling me about grammar, I suggest you brush up on your own. And FYI: YES, separation of church and state IS in the constitution. It's in the first amendment, the same one that guarantees your right to practice the religion of your choice. Congress cannot make any laws restricting that freedom, but it also shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion. It does not specifically use the words "separation of church and state" which is where some people like yourself become confused. But the establishment clause means that Congress cannot establish a national religion, cannot promote one religion over all others, and (now this one is REALLY important in this debate) they cannot support a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose. Therefore, since the argument against homosexuality is rooted in religion, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to discriminate against homosexuals.

Well as a father he was appointed to run his house, governour he ran texas, and as a president, he runs the country and thus pretty much is the most powerful man in the world. Just read the Bible Mark. I promise you will learn so much.

Deists??! Wow- that's a thriving group. What are you up to now? .... 12?

And I am not your son.

Again Chris, your interpretation of the Bible is immaterial. I have read the Bible extensively, it is full of great things, but also many contradictions and policies that would never work in modern society.

God didn't write the Bible?? Oh Mark, get a Bible read it son. When you write a letter, do you write the letter, or does the pen? Obviously you do; the pen is merely the instrument you use. God used men as instruments to write His "letter" to humanity. They ranged from kings to common fishermen, but the 66 books of the Bible were all given by inspiration of God. Proof that this Book is supernatural can been seen with a quick study of its prophecies. See Psalm 119:105 footnote.

And if you think people in elected positions have a divine right to be there, you are absolutely wrong. God would never appoint George W. Bush to run anything.

Oh Mark, again, read The Bible, Proverbs 1:7 it says, “The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] FOOLS despise wisdom and instruction.” Very Godly. Oh yeah, the Bible also tells us that By the FEAR of the Lord, men depart from EVIL. Oh yes, very Godly.

And by the way through all of this discussion it's all about one woman who is a Christian, Bible believing, wife of a pastor. Who by the way told only her opinion not facts just opinion which she has said over and over again. As a Christian I support her for that. She has gotten hate mail from this, death threats, and horrible voice mails. And people are saying that she talks of hate??? What about the people that are calling her, leaving her death threats? Are those not of hate??? HMMM lets think about this one for a minute

And no.. God did not write the Bible. Sorry, he didn't. It was written by people.

We are not discussing your religious beliefs Chris... nobody cares about that. We are discussing the responsibilities of our Government and the basic rights people have... no matter what you think.

I didn't put Sally Kern in office. I didn't put George Bush in office. And yes, I do exercise my freedom to vote. Chris, Deists believe the bible to be interpretations of God as written by humans, not an authoritative source. They believe that the greatest gift God gave to mankind is not religion, but rather the ability to reason. They believe in God, but not necessarily in the divinity of Jesus Christ, or miracles, or inerrancy of scriptures. So you see, what YOU believe isn't necessarily what other Christian denominations believe. You can't apply your doctrines and your beliefs to everyone.

Read your Bible people, the people that are in our Government are put there by God and God alone. Read Romans 13 for a bit. You'll learn alot about our government. Secular or not.

Chris... your earlier quotes of our founding fathers are not entirely accurate and are taken out of context. They were religous men... yes, but as I said earlier... they were very careful to separate their religious views from their public service. They were vehemently opposed to any religious ideology becoming a government standard. And I didn't say I cared if you judged people, we all do it. I'm saying "Judgement Day" is immaterial to this discussion. It's an empty threat people pull out when they want to make others fear a hell we aren't even sure exists. I am sure God doesn't want us to live in fear and that threat is only to create fear. Not a very "Godly" thing to do.

Subscribe to beliefs. Is that kinda like subscribe to the Daily Oklahoman? I did not know you could subscribe to beliefs.

So aside from all that Paula, if you were to die tonight, are you %100 sure you would go to heaven? That's all I care about is your soul and where you will spend eternity. God is not willing that any should perish and that ALL come to REPENTANCE. So again, I ask you, have you ever told a lie? Stolen? Taken God's name in vein?

Real quick is "separation of church and state" in the constitution?



Answer: No

I never said that government officials should all be atheist for the time they are at work. They should, however, be able to do their work and represent the citizens of this state and/or this country WITHOUT applying their religious doctrines to everyone, because that is in direct violation of our federal constitution. And Chris, your judgment day threats are meaningless to me because I do not subscribe to the same beliefs you do. No one has put me on any spot.

Mark, paula and anyone else, on the secular government. Yes there are some reasons behind why you would say it is a "secular government" but i have a question who voted those people into the government? You complain about the government in Nov we are voting on the Commander and Chief of the United States of America. Are you going to vote or stay out of it because it's a secular government anyways? I do agree with your statements and i disagree with your statements but i also know that you can complain all you want about the secular government you just have to remember who put those people there.

Oh Paula. It does not matter what the Episcopalians say. All that matters is what God says in His word. They are, like you and I, are enemies of God through our wicked works. Show me a scripture that says that homosexuals are "Children of God." Go ahead, I know my Bible, I got all night for you to produce it for me. His WRATH abides on us.

Judgement Day????? Judge not?? I'm sorry. Jesus said different. The world often takes this verse out of context and uses it to accuse Christians of being "judgmental" when they speak of sin. In the context of the verse Jesus is telling His disciples not to judge one another, something the Bible condemns (Romans 14:10; James 4:11). In Luke 6:41,42 He speaks of seeing a speck in a brother’s eye. In John 7:24 He said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." If someone steals, lies, commits adultery or murder, etc., the Christian can make a (righteous) moral judgment and say that the actions were morally wrong, and that these sins will have eternal consequences. Chuck Colson said, "True tolerance is not a total lack of judgment. It’s knowing what should be tolerated—and refusing to tolerate that which shouldn’t."

Roughly half of the founding fathers were Episcopalian. The Episcopal Church affirmed at the 1976 General Convention that homosexuals are "children of God" who deserve acceptance and pastoral care from the church. It also called for homosexual persons to have equal protection under secular law. This was reaffirmed in 1982. In 1994, the GC determined that church membership would not be determined on "marital status, sex, or sexual orientation". The GC also discourages the use of reparative therapy to "change" homosexuals into heterosexuals. Several of the founding fathers (including Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson) were influenced by Deist philosophy and Enlightenment philosophy, which played a major role in the separation of church and state. Don't re-write history. The founding fathers established separation of church and state for a good reason.

Correction the Ten Commandments, God's Law, Not Golden Rule. And the Ten Commandments that were giving my God to Moses said nothing about treating others with respect.
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's'

Oh Paula Paula Paula..........George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, First Chief Justice John Jay. Names synonomous with the spirit of our country, and founding fathers of the U.S.A. Over 200 years ago they shook off the chains of tyrany from Great Britain, by divine call. Citing 27 biblical violations, they wrote the Declaration of Independence, with liberty, and justice, for all. But something happened since Jefferson called the Bible the cornerstone for American liberty, then put it in our schools as a light. Or since 'Give me liberty or give me death!' Patrick Henry said, our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We eleminated God from the equation of American life, thus eleminating the reason this Nation first began. Of the 55 men who formed the Constitution, 52 were active members of their church. Founding fathers like Noah Webster, who wrote the first dictionary, could literally quote the Bible, chapter and verse. James Madison said, 'We've staked our future on our ability to follow the 10 Commandments, with all our heart.' These men believed you couldn't even call yourself an American, if you subvert the Word of God. In his farewell address, Washington said, 'You can't have national morality apart from Religious principal,' and it's true. Cause right now we have nearly a hundred and fifty thousand kids carrying guns to these warzones we call public schools. In the 40s and 50s student problems were chewing gum and talking, now rape and murder are the trend. The only way this nation can even hope to last this decade, is put God in America, again!! Paula you're so wrong. Lovingly.

Stop it with the "judgement day" card... that is an empty threat with no basis in reality.

Actually Barbara... many of our forefathers were secularists. Yes, most of them identified with a particular religion personally, but they were careful to create a secular government. They knew the importance of separating their religious beliefs from their public affairs. Religion and government do not mix... if they do, it is a dangerous situation.

Well it looks as if Barbara put Paula on the spot. So how is Paula gonna do on Judgement Day when God holds her accountable to the ten commandments. Oh Paula??????? Have you ever told a lie??

Well I agree that the ten commandments are a pretty good place to start, but I can sum up the ten commandments in three words: The Golden Rule. Do unto others. I'm sure you've heard it. The ten commandments are about treating others with respect. They say nothing about homosexuality. But again, our government is secular. Why do people keep skimming over this point? Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular. Our government is secular.

Homosexuals argue that they did not make a conscious decision to be that way, so it must be natural. They are born that way—just as all of us are born with a sin nature and sinful desires (Ephesians 2:1–3). It is natural for them, and for all of us, to be tempted to do things that God says are wrong. In the same way, pedophiles and adulterers (alcoholics, drug addicts, etc.) don’t make a conscious decision to “choose” that self-destructive lifestyle; they simply give in to their sinful desires. However, although sin is natural for unbelievers, that doesn’t mean God wants them to remain that way. God can set them free from their sinful nature (Romans 7:23–8:2), give them new desires (Ephesians 4:22–24), and help them withstand temptations (1 Corinthians 10:13).

Paula, go to the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights the foundation of OUR GOVERNMENT as you put. Look at the names at the bottom of each of them and tell me there was no religion impact in those decisions of writing. The Founding Fathers who by the way wrote the laws of OUR GOVERNMENT were Bible reading, Church going people as you put. Yes, i do read my Bible and I go to Church but not everyday (sunday morning, sunday night, wednesday night). And I don't think that i'm a politician so i really don't know how you can tell me to keep My religion out of OUR government. If that was the case i would have put a stop to teaching Yoga in Pennsylvania elem schools, Yoga is a Hindu religion. But, since I am not once again someones religion got in Pennsylvanians government and schools.

No, a quiz will not determine a persons worth but The Ten Commandments will.

Barbara, unless God himself wrote that quiz, it is worthless. Regardless, you must remember that your religion is YOUR religion and not the religion of the United States or of Oklahoma. I must have said this four dozen times over the past two or three weeks, but you are forgetting that OUR GOVERNMENT IS SECULAR and therefore the laws of your religion do not apply to the country as a whole. Go to church and read your bible all you want, every day if it makes you feel better. But keep YOUR religion out of OUR government.

I don't mean to offend you Barbara... but a quiz cannot determine a persons worth.

A website to find out if you are going to heaven or not Barbara... you have to admit that is a bit strange.

Just a thought... Jesus spoke of the "wolf in sheep's clothing" and how it would consume and destroy us. When I think back through history and realize the number of victims of religious oppression and the number of people killed in the name of God. Sometimes I wonder if Jesus was actually speaking of the "church." Of religion. He questioned pharisees and was considered a rebel in his day... maybe he was trying also to free us from Religious control. To live freely with a personal relationship with God or whatever you connect with spiritually. Again... just a thought.

God is the creator of hate. The strongest word for hate in the Bible (new and old testament) is abomination. The Bible calls homosexuality an abomination (Lev 18:22) read for yourself. Ps 5:5 also tells us that "He hates anyone who practices wickedness". That's just the old testament. New testament tells us that "No homosexual will enter the kingdom of Heaven". " And that all homosexuals will have their part in the lake of fire" If you want scripture go to 1 Corth 6, Rev 21:8. But, lets put that aside for a second, I also believe that people of all types will end up in hell, including heterosexuals and homosexuals. The Bible says that Anybody who refuses to turn from their sin and receive God’s forgiveness through Jesus Christ will end up in hell. Does the Bible teach that homosexuality is a sin? Yes, very clearly as we read in the above scriptures, but it also says that fornication, lying, stealing, and drunkenness are sins. So, lay aside the whole issue of homosexuality for a moment. Let’s imagine that our homosexual friends are heterosexuals. They still have a problem. They have broken a number of God’s other commandments. Every person must confess their sins, turn to the Lord, and trust in Christ in order to be saved.
Lots of people agree that there sin is justified because “God made them that way.” I can clear that up for you. God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.

However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

If you are reading this and involved in a homosexual lifestyle, does the fact that you have sinned against God concern you? You and I have actually angered Him by our sin. The Bible says that his wrath abides on you, that you are an “Enemy of God in your mind through wicked works.” So put aside your sexual preference. The way to find out if you are going to heaven or not is to take the Good Person Test. www.GoodPersonTest.com. You will then see that you are damned, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, despite your sexual preference. Thank you for your time

Good point Paula. I love that they are reaching so desperately to excuse their hatred.

Let's see. 300 vs 1000 if you want to get down to numbers, why not take a look at percentages? The population of Oklahoma is 3.5 million, roughly. The percentage of Oklahomans who showed up at the capitol to support her was .028571... The percentage of Oklahomans who showed up at the capitol in opposition was .008571... 1/50 of a percent difference. I don't think comparing the numbers at the rallies is an accurate measurement of who agrees/disagrees with either stance.

The only name I have used is mine - ST. What have you used?

Gee Janice - I just looked back at the posts for today and you know what, the only thing you posted was your snide little comment to me. I feel so special. All the discussions going back and forth about Sally Kerns and homosexuals and all you could was question whether I am mentally sound...WOW!!

Janice - since they deleted my last post to you I'll try to be more civil. Yes, I have done lots of things in my life. I have not been a frequent poster as you say. I also choose not to sit on my duff and pine away but not getting out and doing things. If they makes me - how did you put it - "You must be one screwed up old broad." No honey I am just fine. You on the other hand are very hateful and spiteful. I have read your posts on losts of articles. You my dear are the one who is messed up.

Jeff, pauls valley - YOU ARE NAILED LOL. Romans 1 18:28
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;

31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Tim - LOL, if it was a typical liberal poll they would only ask radical gay activists for their response to Sally's comment.

300 at the gay rally, 1000 at Sally's rally. If I were doing an unscientific poll, i'd say Sally has a 3-1 advantage in support for her views.

Jeff - Try Romans chap 1, 18:22. thats in the new testament in case you cared. Are you saying that Jesus disputed the Word of God through his prophets in the Old Testament? I dont think so. try again.

Old Testament doesn't have ANYTHING to do with what Jesus said...try again.

Tim - Lets be honest, its not just homosexual activity thats the problem - its abnormal sexual behavior by both homo and hetro's that has us in the shape we are in. Liberals thinking, attitudes, and indoctrination in our public schools for decades and in politics has put us on the path we are on. Is it any wonder the left worked for decades to remove any ethical or moral guidance in our schools such as the bible or the ten commandments.

I can hear the liberal left wing crazed homosexual activists singing right now, "I fought the law, and the law won!" Way to go Sally for standing your ground and defending what you believe. In today's politics, there are way too many paper tigers that capitulate to the minority at the first sign of adversity. Here's hoping Sally's stand will usher out the era of political correctness and decisions will be made based on what's best for the country, not on which activist has the loudest mouth!

Ad hominem is not a valid debate tactic.

I can hear the liberal left wing crazed homosexual activists singing right now, "I fought the law, and the law won!" Way to go Sally for standing your ground and defending what you believe. In today's politics, there are way too many paper tigers that capitulate to the minority at the first sign of adversity. Here's hoping Sally's stand will usher out the era of political correctness and decisions will be made based on what's best for the country, not on which activist has the loudest mouth!

John - WOW you sure impressed me with that astute statement. Responding like an offended child completely destroys your fantasy life you have conjured up in your dreams for this discussion.