Many in Oklahoma lack access to stores with healthy foods
NUTRITIONNumber of supermarkets has dropped in state in past decade

Sure thing, Paul. Thanks for continuing the discussion.

Concerned, I'll get back to you tomorrow on your comments. Seriously.

Got to run for now but I did check to see if you'd respond. Hope you stick around till I post again.

And Paul, I hope that every Oklahoman you know personally does not remind you of those you frequently hammer in this forum. We have our own brand of idiots here, but I'm really not ready to give up on all the Oklahomans with honest hearts, reasonable intellects, and a true spirit of working for common goals.

As long as those Oklahomans are in the state, willing to listen, & willing to solve problems together, there is hope for us all. It means more to me than it does to you because I was born & raised here. Most of my family & friends still live here.

I feel I will only abandon this state when I've lost that hope, and feel the idiots have fully taken over. I hope if that time comes that my family & friends will join me in a mass exodus.

It's much harder to change things from the outside looking in, and Oklahoma deserves better than it's getting from the corrupt politicians & the idiots who put them there & never hold their feet to the fire.

Thanks, Paul. From my experience, Oklahomans by & large are very apathetic when it comes to voting. We’ve been that way for as long as I can remember. Since I began voting in the late 70’s, only about 7-15% of the eligible voters have turned out for any given election. There have been a few hot button issues that were exceptions to that, of course, but pretty much 10% of our population selects our elected officials.

In the ~ 30 years I've been an Oklahoma voter, I have only voted for the winner a few times. Those winning candidates that I have also cast my vote for have been mostly in city and county offices, but I have voted for 4 winners in state offices in 30 years. I have never voted for a winner of an Oklahoma Congressional seat, and twice I’ve voted for the winning President, BUT my voted did not count because Oklahoma’s electors went to the other guy.

I don’t feel it’s because Oklahomans don’t care. Oklahomans on the contrary seem to care quite a lot. What I hear most often is ‘my vote makes no difference in the outcome.’ They may be right. I’ve tried to talk my friends & family that don’t vote into registering & voting, and they say their vote won’t make any difference. I often feel the same, but I just keep on voting anyway. I know an uncast vote has even less chance of making a difference than a minority vote. I think most Oklahomans are disgusted with this whole state of affairs, but who can really tell when a candidate is on the up & up? We’ve seen corruption with every possible permutation of office holder, from the most liberal, to the most conservative.

Many of the older people I know told me long ago that once you move beyond a city or county election, the person the party wants in office will win the primary until that person falls out of favor with the party. When it comes to duking it out in a general election, the Dems used to win more than 75% of those, now it’s the Pubs. It’s one reason you still see the majority of Oklahomans registered as Democrats, yet voting for Republicans on a state & national level. Over time the parties have grown more polarized & the majority of Oklahomans are more right of center than they are left of center. Oklahomans have kind of stayed the same in religious & family values but the national parties shifted around them.

You have to keep in mind that the vocal minority you argue with on this forum does not represent your everyday Oklahoman. It seems to me these posters are representative of about 10 to 15% of our voter base. These are the ones I call Kool-aid drinkers, and they seem to be very frightened of change, especially change they do not understand. They attempt to educate themselves on the mater, but the people they look to for guidance & leadership have no interest in educating this group of Oklahomans. You see this group does cast their votes religiously & religiously. That is to say they are at the polls virtually every time the polls are open & they cast votes for the candidate who has done the best job in convincing the voter he or she is the one Jesus wants to win. Some might call them sheeple, but the ones you have engaged in conversation have been convinced they are victims of a secular society. I honestly don’t know anyone that votes for people like Randy Terrill or Sally Kern although I do have several friends & co-workers living in their districts.

I recognize that overall Oklahomans are socially & religiously conservative by most standards. That doesn’t make them bad or stupid people in my eyes. The majority are not as rude as those you find here, nor as violent, nor as down-right mean to their brethren. In fact most Oklahomans are quite the opposite of these people. They are kind hearted, compassionate, and exceedingly polite. That’s why a lot of Okies bristle at abrupt, in your face, insulting behavior. Most Oklahomans are also hard workers, self reliant, make-your-own way type of people, and they can be quite judgmental with people who don’t live that same work ethic.

All in all, I would say the main reason we have so many systemic problems in Oklahoma is the widespread political corruption this state is very well known for and the potential power those people have to wield & abuse. It makes our honest, compassionate, polite & hard-working Oklahomans mistrustful of government & leads to voter apathy.

Further, I believe the reason we keep electing these corrupt politicians over & over is because the winners have learned to position themselves as one of two things to get the vote:
1.) the candidate who can bring home the bacon (mostly how Dems used to win.)
2.) the saintly candidate who can best protect the voters & their families from non-Christian ideology and ‘communism/socialism.’ (mostly how Pubs win now.) I grew up in a Southern Baptist community that spoke of stopping the commie invasions often through the 60’s, 70’s & 80’s, so I know the rhetoric quite well.

Since the very vocal minority that you find yourself railing against over & is a significantly large majority of voters in that 10-15% block of reliable Oklahoma voters, a candidate coming from position #2 above gains a very solid majority among the group of people who feel most threatened by progress & comfort themselves because they just elected a god Christian to take care of the job.

And thanks for answering my questions first.

4. Now, please go ahead and answer my questions. Thanks.

1. New Hampshire

2. No, they weren't.

3. Transferred here.

I'm not sure what all of these posts have to do with nutrition unless putting your foot in your mouth is a source of multiple vitamins.

Ok, Paul, I'll tell you why I think most of my fellow Oklahomans continue in this insane rut, if you'll honestly answer the questions from my 1:27 pm post.

fel=feel

"I know Oklahomans keep electing them & many continue to defend them even when it makes absolutely no sense to the rest of us."

Hey Concerned, glad you brought up the "vote" issue. When the Ford center vote came up last year, it was announced that some 18% of the eligible voters actually turned out, which, it was reported was about DOUBLE the normal turnout on any election day.

My question is, WHY so few voters in okieland if they truly desire a change in the way okieland is viewed and to make a better life? So far in your posts you've done a remarkable job in sidestepping my questions about why okies are as slovenly and complacent as they are.

So ,Concerned, why are okies the way they are? From what I've seen in your responses, you pretty much fel exactly like I do about "your" okie brethren, you just don't use the eloquent and "cut to the bone" words like I do.

Correction: I meant "Oklahomans that still vehemently support the repubs have NOT recognized" ... instead of "Oklahomans that still vehemently support the repubs have recognized"...

Just curious, Paul, where are you from?

I haven't abandoned hope that all of Oklahoma is lost to our elected 'chuckleheads'. Like anyone of minimal intellegence, I know Oklahomans keep electing them & many continue to defend them even when it makes absolutely no sense to the rest of us.

Still I can't remember the last time I was enthusiastic about any of the electoral choices on final ballots in this state. It's all partisan politics here & the voters are usually left with a choice between the devil we know & the devil we don't know. We can't trust any of them after such a long history of Oklahoma politicians bowing for so many years to the democrat party, now to the republican party. The republican party of Oklahoma capitalized on the corrupt dems to get elected, yet the Oklahomans that still vehemently support the repubs have recognized that these new politicians are no different than those of old. They just try to enrich a differnt group of people while giving lip service to the citizens.

I suspect many other states are the same just based on the people I meet from other places. The partisan agendas just seem to be variations on a theme as you look from state to state.

I was born & raised here, so not every single Oklahoma vote is an automatic tally for the God, Guns & Gays mantra. Most votes are, but not all. I'm quite certain that the God, Guns & Gays crowd would like to see their fellow Oklahomans, who are unsupportive of that world-view, leave the state and leave them to their theocratic model of governance. As a matter of fact a fellow Okie suggested just yesterday that I abandon my state & country. They also disagreed with me and didn't seem to understand that as an Oklahoma citizen, I (much like you) have every right to voice my opinion on the people they keep voting into office. After they vote the chucklehead in, you see, the chucklehead become my representative, too.

I have long been ideologically seperated from many Oklahomans on many planes, yet I am lined right up with them on many others.

Were the chuckleheads from your home state as bad as these? Did you try Oklahoma on for size, because you thought your home state was already lost to their respective chuckleheads? I can only guess you moved here for a job & simply just hate living here. That is from reading your posts here & elsewhere. Is that so?

"Paul, I can only guess at your motives,"---Likewise, Concerned, at my "guessing" at okies and okielands motives.

Since okies and okieland in general have been steadily dropping in quality of life rankings in all categories for the past few years (check it out, see if you can find ONE Q.O.L. standard in which okieland has gained ground in the past 5-7 years), it is certainly a mystery to me as far as what the "motives" truly are.

Concerned, your brethren okies are the ones who vote these same chuckleheads into office time and time again, and yet they do nothing for okies and okieland except spew their BS about right wing fanaticism, thump the bible, worry about such things like horse teeth filing, fish tattooing, and what do they do for the state? Nothing ! Yet, all it takes come election time is to rant about the bible, or "right wing" politics, and even though you okies live dismally compared to the rest of the country (with VERY FEW exceptions) you re-elect them.

You people are worse than either sheep or lemmings, and I truly wonder which has more common sense...amoebas, lemmings or okies, because they all seem to follow blindly.......

Paul, I can only guess at your motives, but your own comment best explains those (making fun.)

If you consider Okie kool-aid drinkers to be those people who recognize the continued corruption in Oklahoma's state & local politics (regardless of party) have lead us to our current sad state of affairs, then that would be me. If you consider Okie kool-aid drinkers to be those that defend our state & local politicians, regardless of the tripe being spewed forth, then that would not be me!

Now that you have clearly explained your motives for the comments you post, I will view your future posts in the spirit they are offered. Based on your own comments, you get more satisfaction from 'making fun' than you ever will get from an honest discussion about the problems & potential solutions.

In my opinion that makes you every bit as unwilling to take your head out of the sand as those 'kool-aid drinking, clod-kicking Okies' you continue 'making fun' of. It doesn't matter to me that you bounce around the political spectrum, while they are solidly in the fundamental conservative corner. To me that simply means you're just a knee-jerk reactionary who doesn't use critical thinking, either. In other words, you are a part of an Okie majority. Congratulations!

That doesn't mean I find you a complete waste of time, as others posting here do, it simply means I think you are an interesting case study.

Concerned, don't you think it's time okies and okieland in general gave up on trying to "make excuses" about their pathetic station in life?

Why, if you are such a "concerned" native okie, do you fall in line with the kool aid drinkers??

Okies and okieland are best at being worst, and worst at being best...the stats prove it, the results confirm it, and NOTHING is being done about it.

Blame guys like me if you will for mocking this place, but seriously now, if this place weren't in the dismal shape it's in, I wouldn't have reason to come on here and make fun of you, would I???

Paul, as a native Oklahoman I do know that there are educated and fit people in Oklahoma, just as there are uneducated & unfit people in Oklahoma. Right now there are more of the later, overall. I do have both kinds among my family, my co-workers & my aquaintences, as well as in my community.

At times some of the situations you use to insult Oklahoma & Oklahomans with over & over will either disgust me, sadden me, anger me, or puzzle me, that is why I consider myself concerned. I do not leave my home state because I was not raised to abandon a worthy place or worthy people just because we don't agree on some or even a lot of things. With few exceptions (after many years of disgust from seeing some conditions or situations arise over & over) I try to respectfully express my opinions to others. In that regard, you honestly (with no insult intended), could learn something from some of these Okies.

Concerned, what would you like me to say along the lines of something "constructive"??

Do you believe okies don't KNOW that being fat is bad?

Do you believe okies are so poorly educated they don't know better?

Do you believe okies don't realize how this garbage they gorge themselves on is the cause of their obesity? (okaysee, 2nd fattest city in America, 4th fattest state in the country, #1 in heart attacks and #2 in strokes)??

Tell me, Concerned, why do you suppose it is that okies are in this pathetic shape anyway? What do YOU blame it on?

Complacency??

Laziness?

Poor education?

C'mon, Concerned, educate me....

Paul, this 'clod kicker' isn't nearly as arrogant as you want to believe. I was simply stating that driving to the gorcery store is very common in rural Oklahoma and has long been in practice there.

Contrary to Rep Morissette's statements, I do not believe the state has any problem with good quality food in rural areas, just the opposite in fact. From my experience, most rural Oklahomans are in better health & eat better food than most urban or sub-urban Oklahomans.

I know it's not your usual posting habit, but do you have any constructive comments to add to the dicussion? On occasion, even with your rabid hatred for all things 'Okie', you do have salient points. Do you have any for this discussion, or are you just having a good ol' time trash-talking the Okie clod kickers again?

I just love the way these okie posters are making excuses about "food deserts", "long drives", etc., etc.

You clod kickers actually expect anybody to believe that okies are the only state where some people have to drive long distances to hit a grocery store? Please.

Correcting.... "as a kid I could get a fresh tomato in 10 miles to the OKC farmer's market" should read "as a kid I could get a fresh tomato in less than 30 steps. As a city-dweller I now must drive more than 10 miles to the OKC farmer's market".

Shesh... what is the deal with using less than & greater than signs on this message board, DOK IT experts?

The Kerr Center makes Oklahoma sound like we have a lot of malnourished people living in the country... What? Do they seriously think that country kids are less healthy than city kids... in this state? Well, maybe they just mean 1/4th of the people in 1/2 of the counties as noted in the article. What actual number of our fellow citizens are living in this supposed food desert? 5 thousand, 10K, 50K, half a million?

I grew up in rural Oklahoma & we drove to town once a week for our groceries. It was about 15 miles to town & the whole family went. We also had a big garden, a 'deep freeze' & had our own beef butchered for consumption.

While there may be areas of Oklahoma where the nearest grocery is now 40 or 50 miles away, is that truly a problem? It's just the opposite case of my family members who 'still-live-in-the-country.' They live in the country because that is where they want to live. They have always driven to town buy groceries. They also drive to town to go to the movies, eat out & buy a TV or oil filter.

I love visiting them because, even during winter, the items from their freezers taste far better than anything I can buy & cook from SuperWalGet!

That said, I do wish city-dwellers had more local alternatives. I can see where blighted urban areas likely have a problem with quality food availabilty, but as a kid I could get a fresh tomato in 10 miles to the OKC farmer's market, or wait for a Saturday to hit a local farmer's market to get fresh produce. And heaven forbid a true urban dweller (i.e Downtown/Bricktown apartments) actually might find a grocery store in their local neighborhoods.

"Hey paul, I got somethin' you can come nibble on :)"---Hey, "I am", from what your wife tells me, a "nibble" is all you've got....

Maybe they ought to lure the rural populace to areas where there are grocery stores and then consolidate the rural schools at the same time.

Hey paul, I got somethin' you can come nibble on :)

Well, to be honest there are a lot of 7-11 and similar stores around and they do sell an inane amount of junk food. Maybe the folks that run that chain could take a little responsibility and increase the healthy foods they carry? I've noticed over the years that quite a few local mom&pop groceries have closed. They can't compete with walmart or the larger chain grocers. This has indeed left areas where there are no small grocery stores and only the local gas station.