WASHINGTON - The descendants of former slaves owned by some Cherokees can sue Cherokee Nation officers for disenfranchising them from tribal elections, a federal appeals court here ruled today.
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The ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit was a victory for the so-called "freedmen,'' who filed suit after being prevented from voting in two tribal elections in 2003.
The tribe argued that it had sovereign immunity and couldn't be sued. The appeals court ruled today that the Cherokee Nation does have sovereign immunity in the case but that the tribal leaders do not.
"Faced with allegations of ongoing constitutional and treaty violations, and a prospective request for injunctive relief, officers of the Cherokee Nation cannot seek shelter in the tribe’s sovereign immunity,'' the court's opinion says.
The case will now go back to U.S. district court here, where it was filed.
The Cherokee Nation voted last year to amend its constitution to remove all freedmen descendants from the tribal rolls who do not have Cherokee blood. The change is being challenged in a Cherokee court.
Angered by the Cherokee Nation's action, many members of Congress are trying to strip the tribe of some of its federal funding, and the tribe has been fighting a public relations and lobbying battle here to prevent it.
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Well Cherokee,
All this is simply inconsequential babble in attempt of legitimizing the Racist Actions of Smith and CNOT. The international Law is just as inconsequential as your babble or a viable concern, with respect to what this is, as to regards of citizenship rights of a class of Cherokee People in the violation of their civil rights laws of the US…
Yes the Dred Scott fiasco is a blight on a nation base in law, But the era pretty well explains that, and a what is even more ludicrous is Smith and CNOT in this day and time and this BOGUS amendment to a BOGUS Constitution for the sole purpose of discrimination is being dealt with as legitimate operation is simply mind boggling, almost like the Dred Scott BS in reverse.
The Concept of “Dependent Domestic Nations” as Justice Marshall wrote in his opinion in the Cherokee Nation V. Georgia in 1831, is a simple matter of law in the dealing with conquered Nations which the Cherokee Nation was, and is today. Had absolutely nothing to do with racism!
There can only be one term for your asinine blather, and that be stupid!!
The United States courts have long validated the racist concept that Indian nations must be subject to a ward/guardianship relationship as espoused in rulings that date back to the early 1800's. I wonder how the African-American community would feel if modern courts were still affirming rulings like Dred Scott. Yet, opinions stuffed with racist language written by the same crafters of such rulings still guide modern Indian law. The "plenary powers doctrine" by which the United States Congress can "whittle away Indian sovereignty at will" are based on these decisions and have been denounced by international human rights experts as being racist to the core.
By virtue (and I use that term extremely loosely) of these past racist rulings and the powers of Congress they have created, Indian governments today still cannot protect the lives of their people, their land and their own resources. In March, the Committee to Eliminate Racial Discrimination (CERD) which is the monitoring body for the International Convention to End All Forms of Racial Discrimination once again cited the United States for failing to live up to the terms of this international treaty (which the US ratified in 1994) with regard to both minority AND indigenous rights. In their concluding observations the CERD firmly linked the provisions of the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples to the United States compliance with ICERD. The Declaration says unequivocally that Indigenous nations have a right to autonomy in internal matters of self-government and determination of citizenship in order to continue to exist as a "distinct people."
All US branches of government, as well as state and local governments, are expected to comply with these international treaty obligations voluntarily undertaken. But apparently the United States is no more concerned with breaking international treaties than they are with Indian treaties. And no matter how they spin it, proponents of forcing the Cherokees to allow non-Indian enrollment are continuing to perpetuate the oldest form of racial discrimination on this continent.
Well Dang evidently the truth hit home, people don't like the label of truth so they complained to the establishment and got me deleted, well the post to Lary is a good one and it depicts the facts of the matter, as I said simply place your name in place of Larry's, if you are hawking for Smith and CNO.... and I leave of the CNOT-suckin fool Part!
________________________________________________________________
Larry said:
WOW again.
I guess according to some people, the Indians get no say in who gets in their tribe or not. And also Indians don't get any say who is Indian or not.
Is this 1832 all over again?
______________________________________________________________________
I “The Elder” Cornsilk says!
Double Wow Larry! How can one person survive in this world in the state of complete density you babble in? Read with just a little comprehension if you are equipped with the capabilities…….
The Ruling. if you will bother to read, says quite plainly, the Sovereign rights of Tribal Nations are intact and guaranteed, and determining this specific thing you ignorantly blather about, Also THE RIGHT to set criteria for membership, or citizenship which ever their individual constitution/charters call for!…..
Even Smith is Crowing about that fact, dang good thing it only applies to real Governing Entities, not 3rd class Indian clubs as the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma are!…..
And the beautiful part of the Court ruling is, the perpetrators of blatant racial discrimination such as Smith and Team Cherokee, as he calls the council he controls are LIBEL for their Racist Acts against a minority Class of Cherokee in courts of law, and does state the Vann Case in the DC district court can continue!…..
No, NOT 1832 all over again, unless that is the date of onset of the Jim Crow era, for this is what Smith attempted to revive, and you people help promote with all this idiotic blathering!
I think I'm going to see if I can sue the president since I didn't like the results of the last presidential election. Right. That makes about as much sense as filing suit against tribal officials because you don't like the results of the last election, which by the way, the Freedmen DID vote in.
If you look at the court's decision, it states that the case is being remanded to the district court to "determine whether 'in equity and good conscience' the suit can proceed with the the Cherokee Nation's officers but without the Cherokee Nation itself." Therefore, in this case, it has not been determined whether the Nation's officers can be sued separate and apart from the Nation. So, those of you who believe that the court said that the Chief can be sued have been misinformed or have misread the article. Additionally, it was the Cherokee people who voted to amend their Constitution. It was not an executive order issued by the Nation's officers. Hopefully, the court will recognize this issue on remand. As Cherokee, Tahlequah noted, the Freedmen who signed up for citizenship were able to vote in the 2007 election, so that is a moot point. I also agree that the other issues mentioned about the Chief's personal life. etc., have no relevance in any discussions regarding the D. C. court's order.
Now we're getting too personal, A. His personal life doesn't hold water here or in any court. If the suit is about not being able to vote then we've achieved some focus on this matter. But, if the Freedmen are not tribal memebers (never been on the Dawes Roll) then how can they expect to vote in a tribal matter? But I hate to see the tribe dragged through the dirt like this. Now you bring up that the chief was illegally obtaining federal funds. Again, you shift the focus of your suit. I thought it was about a vote you didn't get to participate in.
Now we're getting too personal, A. His personal life doesn't hold water here or in any court. If the suit is about not being able to vote then we've achieved some focus on this matter. But, if the Freedmen are not tribal memebers (never been on the Dawes Roll) then how can they expect to vote in a tribal matter? But I hate to see the tribe dragged through the dirt like this. Now you bring up that the chief was illegally obtaining federal funds. Again, you shift the focus of your suit. I thought it was about a vote you didn't get to participate in.
Now we're getting too personal, A. His personal life doesn't hold water here or in any court. If the suit is about not being able to vote then we've achieved some focus on this matter. But, if the Freedmen are not tribal memebers (never been on the Dawes Roll) then how can they expect to vote in a tribal matter? But I hate to see the tribe dragged through the dirt like this. Now you bring up that the chief was illegally obtaining federal funds. Again, you shift the focus of your suit. I thought it was about a vote you didn't get to participate in.
Vann v. Kempthorne was filed because the Freedmen were not permitted to vote in the 2003 CNO elections prior to March 2007 vote. Their complaint was that the officials of the CNO blocked them from voting when they should have been eligible to vote.
So in other words Chad will be ssued for this not letting them VOTE.
I find it very funny how Brad Carson and Chad two wife Smith are putting the spin on their loss in Court.
Soon we will see them arrested for the theft of Federal Funds like the Global Energy Group case which is under investigation by the FBI SEC & IRS.
How can Chad be trusted ?
When he has two sets of children one set is from Bobbie Smith and the other set is from A Lawyer who lives down the street from his home in Sapulpa ???
He lies to his wives and his children and also to the Proud Cherokee.
I hope he and Gene Stipe have A good time in Prison.
So what do they do if they successfully sue the tribal elders but the court awards them 1 dollar?
I guess they ask for attorney's fees and clean up there.
Mike, they can sue because they found an attorney who was willing to take their case in hopes of fame and fortune. Today's ruling threw out the Freedmen's case to sue the tribe by upholding the fact that the Cherokee nation is indeed a sovereign nation. It did, however, say they could sue the officers of the tribe, which I assume means the chief. So now it goes back to district court where the judge will have to decide what to do with the case now that the tribe is not a party to the case. I don't know how anyone can successfully sue the chief when it wasn't the chief who amended the constitution. It was the Cherokee people! And the ruling today says they can't sue the tribe. If they continue with this suit against the chief, then it is pretty easy to see it is indeed about the money and nothing else. As far as settling the case. The Freedmen will have to be willing to sit down and discuss it and so far as I know that hasn't happened.
Then it seems pretty cut and dried about who is a Cherokee and who is not - according to tribal law. Why can they sue? What are they suing for? How can they expect to win, and why I wonder would a court say they could sue about a soverign Cherokee issue. Hire some very good lawyers and settle with these Freedmen once and for all.
Mike, Some intermarried and some did not. The Freedmen descendants, who can document their Indian ancestors, are tribal members. The non-Indian descendants are the only ones who are not tribal citizens based on the Cherokee constitutional amendment.
The Cherokee Nation does not require a minimum degree of Indian blood, only one Indian ancestor listed on the Dawes Rolls. It is only the non-Indian Freedmen or non-Indian Anglos who cannot document Indian ancestry who do not meet the requirements to be a Cherokee citizen.
So if they intermarried they do have Cherokee blood in them. How many full-blood Cherokees are there left? I know a girl who is 1/264th Cherokee and gets benefits, and her children do too, 1/528th. So why are the Freedmen calling themselves anything other than Cherokee, if they have Cherokee blood and are associated with the tribe, historically, culturally, and biologically?
To Cherokee in Tahlequah, first, thank you for shedding more light on this subject. Can you tell me why the Freedmen decided to remain with the tribe if they were Free to go, after being slaves by the Cherokee? I don't understand this part of history very well.
Evidently the white man’s court didn’t do much research before making this ruling. They admit that the Cherokee Nation is a sovereign nation and in the same breath say it is okay for the “officers” of the tribe to be sued. How does that work with the US? The US is a sovereign nation and I don’t see them allowing anyone to sue the president. So it looks like the court has a double standard, doesn’t it?
First of all, the leadership of the Cherokee Nation did not “disenfranchise” anyone. The people of the Cherokee Nation voted in a legal election to amend the nation’s constitution to clarify the language to require its citizens to document that they are a descendant of an Indian listed on the Dawes Rolls. In other words, to be Cherokee you have to have a Cherokee ancestor. They could just as easily voted to require its citizens have ¼ or ½ Cherokee blood like a lot of other tribes. Either way, non-Indians cannot be Cherokee citizens. It’s that simple.
Second, this case is about an election that was held in 2003. The freedmen could not vote then because they were not Cherokee citizens. It wasn’t until 2006 that the Cherokee Court ruled the freedmen could be citizens until the tribe clarified its language in its constitution. And that’s what the tribe did. Those who can not document Indian blood will lose their right to be a citizen once all the courts get through putting in their two cents.
Third, the regular 2007 election was held and the freedmen who had signed up for Cherokee citizenship DID vote. So, in essence, the freedmen and the courts are wasting time and money on a moot point.
Finally, it seems as if these freedmen descendants simply want someone to sue so they can make some money. If they can’t get tribal benefits by becoming Cherokee citizens, then they’ll try to make a little money by suing the chief. It’s all about money.
Anyone can sue anybody for anything, as long as you can find a lawyer to represent you. We have 5% of the population of the world, and 65% of the world's lawyers, so put a lawyer to work, and sue somebody for something today! :)
News flash, descendants of former slaves can also sue former slave owners. In related news, descendants of Abel can sue descendants of Cain. Does it ever end?
Well it is about time the two wife Chief get's his due.
I wonder when the FBI will do their job on the Global Energy Group Stock deal where Chad lost over 6 Million
of Federal funds mean to help Cherokees get A Job??
I am sure old Brad Carson and the rest of the CNB CNI CNE Boyz will have to explane how they give themmself A Bounis every three months too.
Seems the average for every employee is 3000.00 or A thousand A month?
While Brad Carson gives himself over A Million ?
The Freedmen where called to be removed by Chad in A council meeting along with his henchman KKKetcher???
23
Thank you for joining our conversations on NewsOK.com. We encourage your discussions but ask that you stay within the bounds of our terms and conditions. Please help us by reporting comments that violate these guidelines. To review our rules of engagement, go to Commenting and posting policy.
Leave a comment. Log in below or sign up (it's free).Editor's note: It is not our intent to offer comments on crime or fatality stories.
All this is simply inconsequential babble in attempt of legitimizing the Racist Actions of Smith and CNOT. The international Law is just as inconsequential as your babble or a viable concern, with respect to what this is, as to regards of citizenship rights of a class of Cherokee People in the violation of their civil rights laws of the US…
Yes the Dred Scott fiasco is a blight on a nation base in law, But the era pretty well explains that, and a what is even more ludicrous is Smith and CNOT in this day and time and this BOGUS amendment to a BOGUS Constitution for the sole purpose of discrimination is being dealt with as legitimate operation is simply mind boggling, almost like the Dred Scott BS in reverse.
The Concept of “Dependent Domestic Nations” as Justice Marshall wrote in his opinion in the Cherokee Nation V. Georgia in 1831, is a simple matter of law in the dealing with conquered Nations which the Cherokee Nation was, and is today. Had absolutely nothing to do with racism!
There can only be one term for your asinine blather, and that be stupid!!
By virtue (and I use that term extremely loosely) of these past racist rulings and the powers of Congress they have created, Indian governments today still cannot protect the lives of their people, their land and their own resources. In March, the Committee to Eliminate Racial Discrimination (CERD) which is the monitoring body for the International Convention to End All Forms of Racial Discrimination once again cited the United States for failing to live up to the terms of this international treaty (which the US ratified in 1994) with regard to both minority AND indigenous rights. In their concluding observations the CERD firmly linked the provisions of the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples to the United States compliance with ICERD. The Declaration says unequivocally that Indigenous nations have a right to autonomy in internal matters of self-government and determination of citizenship in order to continue to exist as a "distinct people."
All US branches of government, as well as state and local governments, are expected to comply with these international treaty obligations voluntarily undertaken. But apparently the United States is no more concerned with breaking international treaties than they are with Indian treaties. And no matter how they spin it, proponents of forcing the Cherokees to allow non-Indian enrollment are continuing to perpetuate the oldest form of racial discrimination on this continent.
________________________________________________________________
Larry said:
WOW again.
I guess according to some people, the Indians get no say in who gets in their tribe or not. And also Indians don't get any say who is Indian or not.
Is this 1832 all over again?
______________________________________________________________________
I “The Elder” Cornsilk says!
Double Wow Larry! How can one person survive in this world in the state of complete density you babble in? Read with just a little comprehension if you are equipped with the capabilities…….
The Ruling. if you will bother to read, says quite plainly, the Sovereign rights of Tribal Nations are intact and guaranteed, and determining this specific thing you ignorantly blather about, Also THE RIGHT to set criteria for membership, or citizenship which ever their individual constitution/charters call for!…..
Even Smith is Crowing about that fact, dang good thing it only applies to real Governing Entities, not 3rd class Indian clubs as the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma are!…..
And the beautiful part of the Court ruling is, the perpetrators of blatant racial discrimination such as Smith and Team Cherokee, as he calls the council he controls are LIBEL for their Racist Acts against a minority Class of Cherokee in courts of law, and does state the Vann Case in the DC district court can continue!…..
No, NOT 1832 all over again, unless that is the date of onset of the Jim Crow era, for this is what Smith attempted to revive, and you people help promote with all this idiotic blathering!
So in other words Chad will be ssued for this not letting them VOTE.
I find it very funny how Brad Carson and Chad two wife Smith are putting the spin on their loss in Court.
Soon we will see them arrested for the theft of Federal Funds like the Global Energy Group case which is under investigation by the FBI SEC & IRS.
How can Chad be trusted ?
When he has two sets of children one set is from Bobbie Smith and the other set is from A Lawyer who lives down the street from his home in Sapulpa ???
He lies to his wives and his children and also to the Proud Cherokee.
I hope he and Gene Stipe have A good time in Prison.
I guess they ask for attorney's fees and clean up there.
The Cherokee Nation does not require a minimum degree of Indian blood, only one Indian ancestor listed on the Dawes Rolls. It is only the non-Indian Freedmen or non-Indian Anglos who cannot document Indian ancestry who do not meet the requirements to be a Cherokee citizen.
First of all, the leadership of the Cherokee Nation did not “disenfranchise” anyone. The people of the Cherokee Nation voted in a legal election to amend the nation’s constitution to clarify the language to require its citizens to document that they are a descendant of an Indian listed on the Dawes Rolls. In other words, to be Cherokee you have to have a Cherokee ancestor. They could just as easily voted to require its citizens have ¼ or ½ Cherokee blood like a lot of other tribes. Either way, non-Indians cannot be Cherokee citizens. It’s that simple.
Second, this case is about an election that was held in 2003. The freedmen could not vote then because they were not Cherokee citizens. It wasn’t until 2006 that the Cherokee Court ruled the freedmen could be citizens until the tribe clarified its language in its constitution. And that’s what the tribe did. Those who can not document Indian blood will lose their right to be a citizen once all the courts get through putting in their two cents.
Third, the regular 2007 election was held and the freedmen who had signed up for Cherokee citizenship DID vote. So, in essence, the freedmen and the courts are wasting time and money on a moot point.
Finally, it seems as if these freedmen descendants simply want someone to sue so they can make some money. If they can’t get tribal benefits by becoming Cherokee citizens, then they’ll try to make a little money by suing the chief. It’s all about money.
I wonder when the FBI will do their job on the Global Energy Group Stock deal where Chad lost over 6 Million
of Federal funds mean to help Cherokees get A Job??
I am sure old Brad Carson and the rest of the CNB CNI CNE Boyz will have to explane how they give themmself A Bounis every three months too.
Seems the average for every employee is 3000.00 or A thousand A month?
While Brad Carson gives himself over A Million ?
The Freedmen where called to be removed by Chad in A council meeting along with his henchman KKKetcher???