Paul and Jim, quit trying to pawn yourself off as Oklahomans. Clearly you are Seattle fans who don't have anything better to do than spread your hate. Remember, Mr. Starb ucks sold the team, plain and simple. Quit blaming Clay Bennett for moving the team. He made an effort to get something worked out with a new facility in Seattle, but the climate just wasn't right after the two new stadiums were saddled on the taxpayers. If by some chance you indeed are bitter Oklahomans, the NBA may not work long term in OKC, but at least give it a chance before spreading doom and gloom. Nobody is going to force you to attend the games, nor read the stories or forums in the Oklahoman. So, allow the Oklahomans who are interested to have their fun. Meantime, sit home behind your computer and continue your pathetic little life.

"As long as we are just talking about extending and not actually raising taxes..." The Ford tax IS a tax increase. The city's own documents and this paper even finally admitted it (right after the Tinker Bond election). Just more of the lies you believed and continue to propagate. The budget buster is spending the $100 million the City doesn't have or did you miss the articles about the City's budget tightening and possible cuts in services? The City can't afford it and the millionaire and billionaire owners certainly can.

"R from Seattle", I have to agree with most of what you said, except for that Clay rely TRIED up there, that is definately open to debate. However it is time to take this hit like a man and move on. Ok, Seattle is angry and hurt, Oklahoma feels offended that they get no respect from drizzle town. Well, ok I suppose they don't from most. The smack keeps flowing from 2 areas about the same as say.. Wichita and San Diego. If you are honest with yourself as a Seattle native you have to realize that your native land is not perfect either and apparently alot of OKCers love living so it can't be all bad. We all hate Clay Bennett for what he did or how he did it, but if it was not Clay Clay it would have probably been Larry Ellison who was public enemy #1 in drizzle town today. The truth is Seattle WAS their own worst enemy here and the modest majority of the people in the state probably actually wanted the Sonics to leave rather than fund another arena. I would be less than honest if I say I really want to wish OKC luck in their NBA endeavor and in fact will probably root against them as most fans of up-rooted teams probably do. However this internet boxing match between my old home town and Okieland is no longer amusing and getting sort of pathetic. Time to move on Seattle fans. The gig is up and OKC is an NBA town now, and they have us to thank. The NFL season is just around the corner and it cannot come too soon.

Probably somewhere in between...They are politicians after all

So the question remains, in your opinion, are they liars or merely incompetent??

Your second sentence sums it up pretty well...I got a few A's in math back in the day

So, if you think the city figures are "not accurate", are they, in your opinion lying or just incompetent? Or are you saying that you think you know more than they do?

Not that at all..I think the city's figures aren't accurate but thought I would throw it out there for Larry to enjoy...Either math method you choose to use the personal contributions are a complete joke and have been for 15 years now...Hope you can now get back to your negative posts Paul...Sorry to distract you

Hey Roger, just a quick question then...if you KNEW what the actual numbers the city was telling us, why did you continue for a few dozen posts to state erroneous figures? Was this to make yourself more credible, or to just avoid the real costs of this to anybody looking at this blog? If the city figures are "just 30 cents a day", why did you continue to lie in the reduced figures you constantly posted?

"San Antonio was told they need an additional 100 million after only five years or the team wont be competitive."...As long as we are just talking about extending and not actually raising taxes it's a non issue as far as 90% of us in the metro area go...The other 10% get a rebate come tax time...Heck the $500 million proposal by Bennett wouldn't have raised taxes..."The bill is MUCH higher than that according to the City's own numbers."...OK let's go with theirs then...$10 a month for 15 months and then say $3 a month to help retain the state's first ever major league team...Quite the budget buster..I'm sorry if you lose sleep over 30 cents a day Larry...I choose not to

Roger, once again you are wrong when you wrote: "Bill so far shows we will be out about 5 bucks a month in the short term....Probably around 2 bucks a month for the upkeep...Guess I'm ready for the bill" The bill is MUCH higher than that according to the City's own numbers. But be my guest, you just go right on and keep paying that bill, heck, just send the owners your checkbook or your pin number to your account, am sure that the millionaire and billionaire owners really need your money since you don't seem to.

Roger, what you dont understand is that in the NBA teams expect a new toy every 5 years or so, maybe this bill wont be so bad but after that. San Antonio was told they need an additional 100 million after only five years or the team wont be competitive.

"thought Seattle was suckered, but to commit to 15 years of improvement at your cost. what a awesome conman he is. hope you like the bill."...Bill so far shows we will be out about 5 bucks a month in the short term....Probably around 2 bucks a month for the upkeep...Guess I'm ready for the bill

Steve, am sure you are correct on that one...plus the team has an out clause after 6 years (if certain attendance marks aren't met) and at one other undetermined point in time. Fortunately, under the out-clause OKC won't be on the hook as it says the team has to pay the City back for all of the NBA improvements made. That is about the only way OKC will ever break even on this deal. The City doesn't have an out. The Mayor has finally admitted we don't have enough seats so am sure there will be demands for a new, bigger arena (if the lease includes the City covering the cost of ANY arena or just the Ford, is unclear).

Wow. T from Sea-town. I've read a few analysis and a quite a few rantings and ravings on the topic, but that is far and away the most level-headed and articulate analysis on the topic. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Larry when contracts come due then be sure you will start hearing the whines of a billionaire of how he needs help. I thought Seattle was suckered, but to commit to 15 years of improvement at your cost. what a awesome conman he is. hope you like the bill.

Philip wrote: "Congrats and a big round of applause to Clay Bennett. He never waivered and in the end brought this team home through shear determination. He has forever earned his place in history as the man who brought major league sports to Oklahoma. Great job, Clay.....thank you very, very much." The folks down Gene Stipe's way expressed similar feelings for him and look at what a crook he turned out to be. "We don't care if he is a crook, he is our crook...look at all the good he has done for us" Mr. Bennett's dealing with Seattle has shown just what he is capable of...will he do it to his hometown too in a few years, only time will tell.

Paul, Maybe Roger will agree with you about over-stated attendance figures for sports...he claims there is no way the RedHawks have an average attendance of over 7,000 (according to several sources, including the Journal Record, that is what it is) he says that they are lucky to have 700 during weekday games (he has seen it with his own eyes, so it must be true). I agreed with him that weekday games are logically going to have lower attendance, but that means they really have to pack it in on the weekends to raise the average attendance up to the 7,000+ range. Don't dispute what the Ford website says (esp the part about it being "state of the art", looks like they didn't get the memo from Mayor Mick to update the site to call it "adequate" to get the vote passed). Still don't see how one can figure (even using your numbers) that it is a "dramatic" fall from year 1 to year 2?? Attendance was down some from year 1 to year 2 but number of sell-outs were close to being the same, and average attendance was 18,000 (of the just over 19,000 capacity for basketball). That's all I am trying to say. What the two of you were describing definitely sounds like what happened to the Cavs a few years ago. I recall reading the unsupported claim that all sorts of Hornets free tickets were given out too, but it was just that, an unsupported claim. Someone else claimed there were $2 seats but the cheapest seats were $10 etc. As someone who posts facts/figures extensively I am sure you can appreciate the need for claims like those need to be supported by some source (other than a blog somewhere)

Well said, T..VERY well said. Most of the fanatics on here don't care if Clay did lie, cheat, whatever he had to do to get what he wanted, they'll tell you it's the "modern" way to do "business" anymore. In one breath, Okies will tell you of the values in which they hold so near and dear, then they'll applaud some shyster like Clay Boy for pulling a stunt as he did. Granted, the NBA is now (almost, it's not certain yet) to OKC but he has diminished the reputation of this state and town in a far greater means than what bringing sports to OKC could ever do...and soon after I hit the "post" button and everybody comes in from drinking their 3.2 beer here and whooping it up, the negative comments against me will begin again. I actually look forward to it, because the fact of the matter is that Okies don't want to hear the truth, just so long as nobody exposes their dark secrets to the rest of the country....

Clay Bennett was transparent from day one; everyone knew from day one that he and his pack of lying hyenas had no intention of keeping basketball in Seattle. From his first press conference - to his last he has been dishonest. It's a shame that the entire state of Oklahoma is now being linked with these kinds of morals. Southern hospitality, integrity and graciousness must be reserved to those south of Oklahoma, because even up here in the far reaches of the Northwest a man's word means a lot. Obviously not the case in Oklahoma. Even the Dallas Mavericks owner, from the great state of Texas was the only owner not swayed by Clay's buddy David Stern, and voted to have the Sonics stay in their rightful place. By the way - Why did David Stern not have to testify?

Our politicians were skeptical of Clay's efforts from the beginning, and made working with him almost impossible. He demanded a half billion dollar building be built for him, the most expensive basketball arena in the USA, but was unwilling to contribute to the cause. Very noble of him; would have gone a long way to show his sincere commitment to the region if he had.

Seattle is very progressive, but things don't get done overnight. It took some time but we did build a brand new baseball stadium, one of the finest, at a very high price tag - but it was a joint public & private partnership. Seattle constructed a tremendous football stadium, state of the art, but yet it too was a private / public subsidized venture. When the Sonics wanted to completely remodel / rebuild Key Arena 12 years ago it got done and was also a private - public partnership. These buildings were all built with public and private monies - where as Clay Bennett would not offer any contribution to the cause to get the ball rolling.

Seattle will get a new basketball arena with Ballmer's future ownership group coming forward and offering to pay half the cost of the building, Bennett never offered to pay a dime because he never wanted to keep the team in Seattle as the emails so aptly point out. The Oklahoma hero whose lies and deceiving acts must make you all very proud.

Lets put it this way, in straight talk - which might be foreign to Oklahoman's alike, Seattle is still paying off the new Qwest Stadium, Safeco Field, and the newly remodeled Key Arena (144 months old); it would be like a home owner having not one, but three mortgages at the same time, and then be asked to tear down one of those homes and rebuild it again, at an even far greater cost; and then given a small window of time to accomplish this feat. We have a proven record of getting projects like this done – but his timetable was unrealistic – and his motives transparent and insincere. Hard to work with someone when you don’t believe a word out of his mouth. The city of Seattle was not going to be held at ransom by a group of ‘shysters’, which is exactly what they were. Yes Oklahoma you can be very proud to call Clay Bennett one of your own.

David Stern spoke highly of Key Arena upon his first visit in 1995, but then deemed it unsuitable for his product less than 10 years later. 10 years is all an arena gets these days. How long will the Ford Center be good in the eyes of Stern & Bennett.

Now Key Arena is not the Taj Majal but it is no dump; but unless you are a wealthy luxury box owner it is a fabulous place to watch basketball, intimate with great sight lines. It is a terrific basketball arena - but it is NOT a large shopping mall with 100 high priced luxury suites, & 75 restaurants, that is demanded these days. It’s a basketball arena - home of the Seattle Sonics for a better part of 41 years.

Now a days we have congressional inquiries and trials into whether a player uses steroids or not; and then there are ongoing trials into the ensuing perjury that occurred from those events. Should Clay Bennett not be held to the same standards? The senate inquired on behalf of the people, against players cheating; should they not do the same when a owner steals a 41 year old franchise from a community and then perjures himself repeatedly on the stand. Yes this is a man Oklahoma can be proud of.

The community of Seattle has 'always' supported this team. Clay Bennett’s idea of a “Good Faith Effort” was to strip it of all its marquee players, and trade away any player that could make them competitive - Seattle fans still showed up in the stands. Would Oklahoma show up at Oklahoma football games and support a man who was trying to take that football program to - say Montana? Well -Seattle did. Even when Clay Bennett managed to put the worst product Seattle has ever seen in its ‘41-year history’ - they did not play in front of 7,000 fans. Though he tried in vain, he never could completely disengage the Seattle Sonic fan base; while getting rid of all fan favorites, even coaches with long ties to Seattle basketball and the community - just the opposite thing you would do if you were trying to build fan support for a new arena.

Seattle will get another franchise - but we won't rip one out of somebody else's community. We have had polls in Seattle - and overwhelmingly people voted up here that we would not want to be granted a team if it meant stealing one, and all its history from another city. I guess you can say that is where people from Oklahoma and Seattle differ - its called morals; look it up in the dictionary if you don't understand what it truly means.

Though you successfully stole our team - you cannot buy a team's history - it is Not something you purchase - it is something you live; something that is woven into the community, into the people that shared the fond memories - not something you buy. Make your own history and then rightfully celebrate it. Don't make mock NBA Championship trophies and banners that have absolutely no meaning to you. Remember a NBA team does not make you a big city, any more than Los Angeles losing the Rams made them a small city. Oklahoma will still be Oklahoma – with just another entertainment value available.

I was in Oklahoma for the first time a week ago, and met many nice people when I was there; and came away with the feeling they were happy to get a team but they did not agree with how they were getting one. From what I saw of the area - I have no idea how Oklahoma plans on supporting an NBA team - past the 3-5 year novelty phase, at which point your hero will be asking for a new arena to be able to compete - even though Ford Center looked adequate.

Most of you from Oklahoma know an injustice was done - and for you to stand for this injustice and not voice your opinion - makes you no better then Clay Bennett. I have read that Clay is regarded as a hero now, while most of the United States reserve that term for the likes of our ‘honorable’ fighting troops, policemen and the like. For any of you to consider him a hero for what he has done - only shows your lack of integrity & values - for he has painted your state, your region with a brush of dishonesty, and unscrupulous behavior that will far outlive your short NBA lives.

T - in SeaTown

ok, I had to chime in here. Congratulations to Oklahoma City. Im sure you will do fine with your new team. And please ignore people like Paul and Jim - who ONLY look for negatives to support a presupposed position in order to try to make their worthless lives have meaning. Ignoring their posts would be a great recommendation. Like most nay-sayers, they can only point the finger but never offer a counter solution. That right there tells me that the person is baseless and only trolling. At least the Seattle zelics who come on here are venting, I have no idea why someone from OK would be doing the same. It would be different, like I said, if Jim or P Yukon or whoever else, offered a counter solution to their doomsday argument. Most of us in Seattle are sad at the loss but really don't care too much anyways in that the Sonics are not the same team of nostalgia - and they were our 3rd rate team. The writing was on the wall when Schultz sold the team to Bennett from OKC, when the city passed I-91, when the legislature and city clowncil of Seattle refused to initially meet and negotiate with Bennett or Schultz (even though Schultz was offering a $200M Key Arena overhaul), when the leg didn't even have the votes of confidence for the Renton proposal (and now we know it was the City of Seattle who sharked the legislature [in the interest of Seattle] and surely this will void Howard Schultz case too), the NBA approved the move with only two dissenters (one being Cuban who didn't want a team eating into HIS territory - that's it, and Allen who needed to protect his image or those same fans might not show up to HIS NFL franchise), when Marsha Pechman stood every PBC objection and questioned the city's entire case, and finally - when our wonderful Mayor McCheese Nickels (aka triple chinn) sold out the very people he was adamently saying he was trying to protect. I honestly dont blame Clay Bennett at all - at least he did TRY something here. If it were sold to anyone else, the Sonics would have been long gone! And, after all - it has long been Bennett's mission to buy and bring a major league franchise to OKC - that is nice that somebody cares that much about their hometown. Nope, I blame OUR politicians and former ownership group - they bear 95% of the blame, with the remainder going to Stern (for not spending quality time here trying to get his new arena [see Sacramento] and Bennett for getting our hopes up so to say only to 'give up' in the end). But I dont blame him for giving up, I mean, we sent a HUGE message that we don't want to publicly support any more franchises. Like I said, the writing was on the wall, and ANY Seattle poster or fan who doesn't admit that are the same worthless pieces of chit that they are coming on here trying to call Oklahomans.

Okie City will never be "major league", Charlotte has an NBA team also - and no one considers it a major league city. I suspect that the Okie Sonic will do well in attendance - there is really nothing else to do in little league OKC. But remember that your bandwagon fans didn't support the best sports franchise in the state during their losing years and the Okie Sonic will be a loser for years.

Big town dreams for small town minds. Gotta love the products of the Oklahoma City Public schools.

Huh..according to the official site of the Ford,>>http://www.okfordcenter.com/>> The Ford is already state of the art,no mention of "adequate" or "small" mentioned.....As far as seating, according to the site, the seating capacity is 20,800, so we'll round off to 20,000 to make the math easy. If average attendance was 18,000, then that means for every TRUE "filled to capacity" game, there was an equal amount of 16,000 attendance games, or roughly the Ford was at capacity only 50% of the time for games played there. The guys like Philip and such can try and refute these numbers, but it is what it is, and this is it. Now, considering that there was nothing but rumor about ever getting a permanent team here back when the Hornets were in town, and with this being the "possible" only chance to EVER see an NBA game in OKC, coupled with the fact that FREE tickets went unused, I'm not so sure that the "overwhelming support" is truly overwhelming at all. Even if you state that for a bassa'ball game, the capacity of the Ford is 19,000, then that means that for every 19,000 "packed house" game, there was an equal number of 17,000 in attendance games, and the "free tickets"(or potential seats for purchase) unused still applies....maybe it's a good thing when they start renovations that they do reduce the seating capacity, it'll give this city a better chance to say" we always pack the house"......

No Larry, I'm pretty sure I recall somebody saying in a past blog on here that there were free Hornets tickets that went unused...